After nearly a decade of shaping the narrative of innovation in Central and Eastern Europe, Irina Obushtarova — co-founder, former CEO, and now Strategic Advisor of The Recursive — has stepped aside from her operational role, with a new leadership structure announced yesterday. Not out of necessity, but out of conviction: that founders, much like politicians in true democracies, must know when to pass the torch.
In this unfiltered conversation with her co-founder Etien Yovchev, Irina reflects on building more than just a media company — on building a platform, a culture, and a mirror for a rising region. Together, they revisit key moments, personal transformations, and the paradoxes of leadership. They talk about bold and difficult decisions, staying close to the community, and what it takes to leave and know when it’s the right time.
Etien Yovchev: How did you make such a difficult decision? I mean, most CEOs are not leaving their own company, or if they’re leaving, it’s not because of their own choice.
Irina Obushtarova: Yeah, you didn’t chase me out. [laughs] But I also wouldn’t say I left on my own, though. It was definitely a decision we made together. And we didn’t make it from a place of animosity or conflict. Actually, it was the opposite. Maybe because we know each other very well — and we care about each other—we were able to make this decision relatively easily. And I wouldn’t say there was a lot of soul-searching. It felt, in some ways, as if the timing was right.
In The Hard Thing About Hard Things, Ben Horowitz talks about how being a good founder doesn’t always make you a good CEO. He even says that knowing when to bring the right leadership is one of the hardest and most courageous decisions a founder can make.
I think there’s an outdated myth that a founder must remain a CEO for life to prove their worth. I didn’t leave because I lack grit. I believe I proved it — actually, twice. First, when founding Trending Topics SEE, which was kind of the first version of The Recursive. And then doing it all over again from scratch with The Recursive.
So, for me, it’s been — what — six, seven years since we published the first article and initiated the idea of a specialized tech outlet for the innovation ecosystems in our region. That idea was born in 2018 and evolved over the years. In 2021, it became The Recursive.
It’s time to challenge the myth that a founder needs to stay CEO forever. It takes a lot of self-reflection to realize that what brought us here may not be what will take us further. Just like politicians in real democracies, founders carry a mandate. And when the mandate is fulfilled, it may be time to create space for new energy, new perspectives, new leadership. Otherwise, the organization may stagnate.
So, when we made the decision, I felt that my job was done. If I stayed, it would have probably been detrimental to the company.
Etien: How did you know that your job was done? That this was the right timing?
Irina Obushtarova: Over the years, I’ve learned that good leadership requires a deep investment in personal development. The health of a founder-led company is deeply intertwined with the well-being of the founders. When you and I felt good, the company did well. When we were overwhelmed or burned out — so was everyone else.
That’s one of the hardest parts of being a leader — there’s no buffer. So in recent years, I focused a lot on understanding who I am, what energizes me, and how to manage myself before managing others.
I realized I’m someone deeply motivated by bringing chaos into order. I get very excited to see the potential of something before anyone else does — raw, unformed — and helping it take shape. In the beginning, it’s all a bit fuzzy and blurry. But if you follow your vision and intuition, it starts to take form and it becomes real.
Even when we started The Recursive, many said it wouldn’t work, that it wouldn’t be sustainable. That just motivated me even more.
And working with brilliant, creative people is amazing but it also made the task even more challenging. Creatives often thrive in chaos and autonomy. None of us wanted an authoritarian structure. [laughs]
So it was exhilarating to bring order into such a kind of environment.
Over time, we’ve grown. Today, we have our own processes, systems, customer base and culture. Things are in place. At some point, you just feel it and know it — that your job is done.
It’s a gut feeling — just like so many important life decisions. I just felt my job was done. And I felt the new leadership team had what it takes to bring The Recursive to the next level. So it was time for me to make space for others to step in. That’s how it felt — and it felt right.
Etien: Do you feel like a different type of leader now after five years in this fast-moving company and industry?
Irina Obushtarova: Maybe different in a different sense of the word. I think leadership has always been about authenticity. It’s about coherence between who you are and how you present yourself to the world. If there’s a misalignment, people sense it — and they don’t trust you.
So I wouldn’t say I’m a different leader — I’m just more “me” as a leader today. I dared to close the gap between how I am inside and how I show up.
When I was younger, I believed I needed to be someone everyone liked. I don’t believe that anymore. Those who resonate with me will choose to work with me. The rest — and it’s okay — won’t. And I believe all this makes me a more effective leader today.
Etien: What are you most proud of from the past five years? The story — with a capital S.
Irina Obushtarova: We didn’t just build a media company or a storytelling and tech PR agency. This is just the form. What we did was create a credible voice for the region. And we empowered others to find their own voice as they built their companies.
The Recursive became a mirror and a megaphone for the region — a region that had long been unseen, underestimated. We played a role in changing that perception. That’s what I’m most proud of.
But also—I’m proud of the culture we built.
I don’t know how we did it. I can’t dissect it to the exact steps. But I see it in people’s faces. I see it on our conference calls — people in the team feel like they can be themselves here. They feel aligned. This place gives them a foundation to grow within The Recursive — but also in other organizations. The young people who graduated The Recursive Academy and even those who’ve moved on still carry the DNA of The Recursive.
When I see them — or see you — it makes me proud. We’re a different kind of organization. People here first enjoy each other as humans, and then as colleagues. And there would be moments when we might not even enjoy working together anymore — because it’s stressful — but the human part stays, so we keep on close.
Etien: So if you had to describe our DNA in a few words?
Irina Obushtarova: Authenticity, for sure.
I’ve always wanted to be in an organization where I could be myself. I’m not an easy person — I have my edges. But I wanted to create a place where it’s okay to have edges. Because at the same time, we all bring our own geniuses — and thus complement each other.
Etien: How do you think this authenticity and culture translate to The Recursive’s external brand?
Irina Obushtarova: I can only repeat what others tell me. They see us as a kind of tribe — authentic, different, but also in service of the community.
We’re not some distant media agency observing from above. We’re in the coworking spaces, at the conferences, at the parties. We know what’s going on in the companies — what their challenges are. We even know their personal stories. How founders are feeling, what worries them and what excites them. That kind of proximity builds trust.
I think people see us not as “just” a media company — but as an integral part of the community. They trust us with their stories. And they know we’ll tell them in a constructive way — one that helps the innovation ecosystem thrive.
Etien: What moments from the past 5 years will stay with you forever?
Irina Obushtarova: There are many. I’m sure I’ll start reminiscing even more over the next few months. But on the top of my mind…
One of the biggest moments was when you and I were sitting in the park, not knowing how this media company could happen. Not even knowing it would be called The Recursive yet. And you were there, ready to jump into the unknown with me. That touched me deeply. That belief meant a lot and gave me courage. We really didn’t know how to continue at this moment. We had two interns. No capital. No website.
Another big moment — when a founder told us that an article helped them close a round. That’s when you realize the reporting has real, tangible impact. Or when a story went viral for the first time. Or when someone we’d featured told us they got invited to speak on a global stage because of it. That’s a powerful feeling.
Each time we convinced a brilliant young person to move to or stay in Bulgaria and join us — and later saw them thrive, build careers, feel at home — that’s also unforgettable.
Even our Christmas parties — remote as they were — were emotional. We were exhausted, but still wanted to hug each other over Zoom. We’d gone through so many challenges together — but that sense of achievement at the end of the year was so validating. And even the hard moments — like when we had to part ways with someone. Seeing them later, still connected to the community, still carrying our DNA — that made me proud too.
It showed me that The Recursive isn’t just a company. It’s a tribe.
And yet another key moment? Realizing that stepping down — this very hard decision — was actually good for everyone. You, the new leadership team, got to grow into new challenges and roles. And everything continued with a brand new and fresh energy. The world didn’t collapse — but actually made more sense. And I got to make myself obsolete, replaceable. And I’m proud of that, too. CEOs should be celebrated for that — for building organizations that don’t depend on them.
Etien: Let’s talk about the new leadership team. Why do you trust them?
Irina Obushtarova: You’ve all been part of the leadership team for over two years now. I gradually involved each of you in things I used to run alone. I watched you grow, take responsibility, and you started seeing the entire chessboard — not just your departments.
That shift in perspective changes everything. You started understanding the interdependencies — how moving one piece affects another.
This mindset was already there long before the actual transition. But why do I believe in you?
Because I’ve seen your qualities develop. I’ve tested and challenged you. And I’ve seen each of you grow into your new role more and more during the transition. So, it’s no longer just my belief — it’s a fact that you have what it takes to lead further.
Etien: What advice would you give the new leadership?
Irina Obushtarova: In the past few weeks, I’ve tried not to interfere, not to be patronizing or act like I know better. I’ve told you: I’m here if you need me — to listen, to support, to bounce ideas. But I won’t dictate.
Still, if I had to insist on something… I’d say: stay close to the community.
This company was born out of necessity – out of deep listening. Keep listening — to what moves founders, what they need to thrive, to turn their visions into reality.
The Recursive isn’t just a company. It’s a platform for founders, innovators, and problem-solvers in Central and Eastern Europe.That mindset needs to be protected. Replicated. Even… infected into the next generation of leaders.
So, yes — listen closely. Stay grounded , yet ambitious. Stay kind. Stay in service. Show up for others.The rest will follow. You’ll figure it all out. There’s no magic.
Etien: Where do you hope to see The Recursive five years from now, in 2030?
Irina Obushtarova: I don’t know what we imagined when we started — sitting in that park, wondering if we should start a media outlet or not. We didn’t do it to become famous or successful or rich. We did it because it was necessary. Because no one else was telling the stories of innovation communities in our region to the world. At least back then.
Now there are others who have joined the conversation. But this doesn’t diminish our mission. If anything, it proves its importance.
Where do I see The Recursive in five years? It is not my place to define that. The vision now belongs to the new leadership. I don’t need to say, “This is what you should do next.” That’s your job — to bring your own vision.
But what I do hope is that The Recursive stays in service to the community. That it remains constructive. Maybe it grows into an even more trusted source for stakeholders all around the world who want to invest in, engage with, or even move to the CEE.I hope we continue being storytellers, not just for those already here, but for those curious to move here, to become part of these ecosystems.
Every innovation hub is a magnet for talent. And the real competition globally is exactly for talent — fierce competition for the smartest people in the world. And I believe CEE has so much to offer. So much potential still to be unlocked. Having a megaphone for these stories is critical.
And I hope The Recursive doesn’t just tell stories of success. I hope it also continues shaping new stories — inspire future ones — by bringing optimism and confidence to the region.
Etien: The big question everyone in the community is curious about: What’s next for Irina Obushtarova?
Irina Obushtarova: Everyone’s asking me that. And they don’t believe me when I say: I don’t have a plan. But that’s the beauty of it.
I’m enjoying not having a structured calendar. I’m entering a new season of listening — this time, to myself.
As a CEO, you juggle so many topics. You never have time to go deep into any of them. At some point, I feared I was becoming too superficial. Now, I want to dive into new topics. New interests. Gather new input before the next output season.
I don’t yet know what the next thing will be. But I’m also curious about experimenting with new expressions of leadership — more as a mentor and an advisor. First to you, the new leadership of The Recursive, and maybe then also to other founders who need a peer to talk to.
I don’t know what’s coming next, but I’m excited for it. The chemistry of anxiety and excitement in the brain is almost the same. It’s all about framing. After all we went through at The Recursive, I learned to reframe. So, today I am able to say, “Life, bring it on!” [laughs]
Etien: Please don’t start a new startup in two months. [laughs]
Irina: No. [laughs] I’m not ready for that. Definitely not in two months. I know a lot of founders struggle after stepping down. But I’m not feeling that… yet. I’ll see how things will unfold.
Etien: You seem more optimistic now than five years ago.
Irina: Yes, and thank you for this, Etien. And I guess partially because I’m looking for the next chaos to turn into order. [laughs]
Etien: And I’m sure chaos is looking for you. [laughs]
Irina: [laughs] I’m pretty sure about that too.
Irina: Wait — can I ask you a question? We started this journey together. It’s always been the two of us — co-founders, final decision-makers. How do you feel about me stepping aside? About going forward with a new team of leaders?
Etien: That’s a good question. I’m excited about stepping into the unknown. Ever since I started working in media, it’s been with you — for six years now. You’ve been my partner.
And as I’ve said many times: you’re the person I’ve learned the most from. You challenged me when I needed it. And I’ll always be grateful for that.
Irina: But honestly, I’ve also grown because of you. And I’ve learned from you too. You brought optimism and lightness which I didn’t have by design. After a tough day — even after a fight — you’d bounce back so fast. That taught me something. Our fights brought us closer. Of course, we fought. We’re so different. As we are supposed to be. That’s how we covered each other’s blind spots.
But I was always amazed by your attitude: “Okay, there’s a conflict, we messed up, let’s move on. Let’s be constructive. Let’s think about the future. Let’s not linger in the past.”
Etien: Yeah, I think this is related to optimism. Because I don’t think this kind of job is possible without almost delusional optimism. Nowadays, when I have an idea and someone tells me, “This is delusional,” I’m like, “Thank you.” I’m on the right path.
Irina: Well, as you might expect, I agree — partially. Because I was always trying to take out the delusional part and make the most of your optimism. [laughs] To control it, so it didn’t take us completely out of reality. [laughs]
Etien: Yeah, I don’t think we should try to launch a rocket. But I think this kind of thinking — it’s true for both of us. This kind of almost delusional optimism is how we started the company. And in a way, I think it helped us with this transition as well — to know that, okay, the CEO is leaving, everything is going to be fine. Not a big deal.
At the same time, yes, I am optimistic about the future. That’s the reason I’m continuing after six years — and it is a brutal job most of the time. [laughs]
I’m excited about taking on this opportunity to lead The Recursive in the next chapter together with Teo and Dilyana.
I can’t say where the future will take us for sure. Maybe some of the things you mentioned, maybe it’ll be something else. I do hope we’ll be a billion-dollar company — then it’ll be great for all of us.
Irina: [laughs] I want to point out one final thing. We live under the illusion that we have a stable personality — a stable core. But experiences like this, the intensity of building and leading a company, the relationships it takes to grow something from nothing, challenge that illusion.
They make you understand that we’re not a fixed set of qualities or personality traits. What I’ve learned over the years is to embrace paradoxes. That I can be assertive and also humble. I can be visionary and grounded in reality — taking care of my health, my body, my home. I can be exhausted and fragile and still feel energized, resilient, confident about the future. I’ve learned to keep on going — that when I am tired, I need to learn to rest, not to quit.
So I think we need to start thinking in a more multidimensional way. Because what The Recursive is doing — there are very few people who can tell you how to build it, how to develop it, how to scale it, or what comes next. Most people would actually tell you how this is not going to work. [laughs]
And yet — you’re going to learn a whole new set of qualities. And I’m almost envious, because now you get to learn from your next colleagues, from the new relationships and intimate dynamics you’ll develop. You get to learn from Teo, and from Dilyana — and they get to learn from you.
And I believe this is how we enrich each other in life. This is how we as people become richer — through our relationships to others. But I’m getting very philosophical now…
